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← darkroom
Babylon - Ending discussion
wtf
let's make a show where everyone dies
Nothing wrong about killing off characters. Their deaths however should serve some purpose and ideally help the story reach a satisfying conclusion, which is exactly what didn't happen in Babylon's case.
Also I didn't give a damn about any of the characters (besides perhaps the young colleague of Zen's who was offed in the very first ep) so I couldn't care less if they lived or not.
US president was killed to avoid people concluding thanks to him that "suicide is good".
Seizaki was killed because he killed (did bad). There was no future for him after such murder. In this case, he's better dead than alive. shrug
AKAME GA KILL VIBES
It was disappointing and terrible. It makes no logical or thematic sense and the last four episodes as a whole were a massive waste of time.
so fucking crazy... the heck even is going on right now? WW3 suddenly parkoured to WWZ similarly to the last episode being
a literal 25 min long video version of 'wtf '
And yet so WHY THE FUCK THIS STILL FASCINATES ME? im a fucking masochistic degenerated dumb piece of shit
so retarded . This was the worst ending i ever saw . This is asking for a season 2 and author is a big asshole for trying to force it because of the stupid OPEN and unsatisfying ending. Wouldnt watch if i knew about the ending
How was it open?
i mean they ended it without any story finish . its like you stopped in half of the season...
Did you perchance skip the post-credit scene? We have an ending for every character in the show.
This is the most stupid ending of a really promising anime. This ending has committed suicide.The conflict hasn't been resolved, because the protagonist murdered president and killed himself afterwards, so I assume he died for nothing?? Magase became so imbalance that no one has figured out how to kill her so they just left her alive??!!
How is Itsuki Kaika connected with Magase?
Is Magase a Babylon whore or perhaps a Satan, WHO IS SHE?
Honestly, I don't care anymore.wtf was that ending, so you telling me, babylon was just to represent the Evil winning?
I don't know, it probably represents auitism winning to me. Really, be Magase. You kill all close friends of Seizaki and now he wants to kill you. But you wait until the final episode and only then make him commit suicide FOR FUCKING WHAT? I watched this through because I thought there're plans for him, but no, he dies.
y'alls fault for sticking with that trainwreck lmao
It literally is like a product of an edgy "intellectual" teen looking up big words on Google, not even doing basic research on how countries function, and then trying to make what they think is a d33p story when all it does is appeal to the people who keep posting the intelligent anime starter pack unironically
It didn't go perfectly well. It is a really subtle subject that the author couldn't tackle to its full extent. Well, nice try : dwelling about good and evil for a long while was worth the experience. We liked Megase and would have even liked to know more about her ability to drive people to suicide.
Not going to lie, all that politics bored me. And I don't even understand why would the extremely busy US President bother with such matters.
I was even more bothered by the fact that politicians are the ones debating the suicide law. They are not the ones who should approach such case. And the hell the presidents decide whether the suicide law is to be - it is not one of their responsibility!
Arf. More thoughts here.
Seizaki shot the president because if he committed suicide it would be seen as the suicide law being good, by killing him everyone would assume it was a chased and murdered. Theres not a 100% chance of immobilizing the president and he may fall or still try and commit suicide afterwards.
and magase it is to show the paradox with the answer of "existence is good" by showing that "existence means evil will continue" which leads to the conclusion that "evil is good" because the only way to end "evil" is to end existence.
but still what the fuck is this ending and the post-credit scene
that point about paradox was actually reasonable.
Yes, Seizaki shot the president because the alternative was a disaster of potentially apocalyptic proportions. However, him shooting the president was still an evil action, even though he was instructed by the president ahead of time (albeit implicitly) to do what is "right". This conundrum was effectively a recreation of the "death lottery" / "trolley problem" the politicians discussed before, just on a much larger scale. Seizaki ultimately chose to kill one person (which is evil according to Christian religious philosophy and in general) in order to save many. But in that situation, the decision seemed to be the lesser of two evils.
The purpose of this scene was to challenge both Seizaki and the audience on what we believe in regards to morality. The episodes prior to it serve as setup for this moment, building up an air of suspense and priming the audience with a philosophical discussion of good and evil.
you don't challenge the audience on morality by outright defining it, unless you pull a psycho-pass (defining morality in the very beginning of the show and spending the entire time ripping into why that definition is flawed af)
After sleeping on it, I think that the theme of the show was quite a bit simpler. It's the story of a man who gradually throws away all he believes in, from doing things by the book back in ep 1 to the sanctity of human life in the finale. I don't think there was much point to the stinger scene other than indirectly confirming who was actually shot though.
"and magase it is to show the paradox with the answer of "existence is good" by showing that "existence means evil will continue" which leads to the conclusion that "evil is good" because the only way to end "evil" is to end existence. "
This sentence represents perfectly the show. It proves just all it could reach was a pretentious statement that was aimed at from the start. This is a fine example of "DEEP".
Guess Magase's gonna fuck some shotas in the end.
By all means I don't think the author wrote his novel (I suppose this is somewhat of a 1:1 adaptation at least in plot points) pretending to solve if killing yourself is good or not, but just so the reader would think about it more deeply and think for an answer. Mister US president was going to kill himself and Zen saves him from showing he fucked up after understanding what was good, at least what he (and the author obviously) thinks about the whole theme. To me it seems it's supposed to seem unresolved and for yourself to seek the answer while being subtle in telling you that suicide is not the right option or that telling others what the fuck to do is wrong.
For something to continue, it has to exist, and if it exists, it can end, can't leave one or the other out. I guess it really doesn't matter, it's way too simplistic to consider what to do just thinking in terms about good and evil, many actions are helpful to some and harmful to others. A disappointment of a series but at least Zen's kid gonna slay some hot gurls in the sticks.
It was a pretty big wtf ending for sure, but after reading a bunch of other people's reactions I think it's not a bad one. A lot of people seem to be writing the show off as pointless drivel because of its "lack of realism" or lack of "intellectual rigor" in its handling of its themes. I think this assessment misses the mark of the point of this kind of media tackling these kinds of themes.
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Fictional media isn't always realistic. Yes, sometimes a "lack of realism" can affect your suspension of disbelief, but there's no right or wrong way to assess this (every individual is different in their interest/ability in engaging with a given story). It is worthy of note if it broke your suspension of disbelief but that doesn't make it objectively bad.
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Intellectual rigor isn't something you can really present in the form of an anime or manga, it's just not a medium which is suitable for this kind of thing. If you want rigor, read a philosophy book on ethics/morality, take an online course, or watch a discussion between philosophers.
Unlike other viewers, I found the questions Babylon presented interesting and didn't find its treatment of its themes to be inadequate. I found the storyline to be gripping due to the stakes and the incredible screen presence of Ai Magase. While the plot jump was a bit confusing and contrived, I feel it ultimately tied in to the story's themes and made for a wild finale.
I am slightly disappointed in how the post-credits scene framed the aftermath, I think that scene not being present would have made for a stronger ending overall. However, I do think that it has significance in what it says in regards to the show's wider thematic narrative of good and evil.
The author never really explored the subject, he's clearly uneducated in that. The whole show ended up being a big ball of nothing trying to look deep.
The arguments used in the debates were extremely poor and low level stuff, the way he portrayed the world leaders was ridiculous at best. A whole lot of things left unanswered such as the relation of Ai and Itsuki, was that all a farce or real? How does a family with a father openly saying he wanna die even works? That scene where his kid go "oh okay dad" when he gets "convinced" was laughably bad, for example.
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I'm cool with kill characters, but ...
But the explanation for what is good and what is bad was... "That's it ?"
Also i hold prefer them to explain me what happened , in my opinion it's not cool to finish-finish a story with a end that dosen't feel like an end.
It seems like a forced ending.
the problem here is that the build up doesn't lead to the conclusion AT ALL.
the anime just revolves around people planning and thinking, all to be destroyed in a single moment by a woman whispering to people.
all the character building and world building is just wiped off when Magase appears, some people find that interesting, but i think it doesn't make sense
Magase is a problem to be avoided, and not faced I think. That's what Zen's friend told him, too. The characters played it safe with the transmission but she was on top of that, and they can't win.
It would be nice if the conclusion had some more answers, even if it was just confirming things worked out following the president's death, but I did enjoy the show. Much like the characters (we're following their pov after all), we didn't have all the answers, and like Alex's wife said you're not gonna have all the pieces.
Do these sound like excuses, or maybe apologetic? I can't tell. It's not like I understand everything, either, what I know is that was a very interesting experience to me. I can understand people being disappointed with this abrupt ending, but after thinking about it a bit and reading the other replies here, I think it makes the show very unique in a good way.
This show is seinen at its absolute worst, the difference between how it was initially and the end was that it started off as hilariously bad and ended as boring bad.
At least the ending gave me a good laugh though.
Clearly the author of the story couldn't handle what he made. It shows heavily that he never really delved deeply into philosophy or read anything that could relate to the topic of morals, what is good and evil, suicide or anything like that. Poor writing showing very clearly there.
All that pinnacle at episode 7 achieved with boldness and cruelty gone to complete waste with 5 episodes of boring shit that goes barely anywhere, filled with discussions and arguments that might not even be worthy of a high school debate. The way the world leaders were portrayed was pathetic and not remotely realistic, again showing the author doesn't really know what he was doing. Alex in special was a character poorly used, extremely disappointing.
That ending was especially awful too. The lack of visual conclusion doesn't help at all.
All in all a story that tried to do something great and failed miserably.
I am not sure why the anime industry thinks women that know how to use sex appeal to get stuff done is evil. Hi, I'm female and over the age of thirteen, let me lean over so you can have a look of my cleavage while I smile with only my bottom lip lipstick applied, oh my, you took the bait and now you have to do every little thing I desire or else, ha ha ha haaa idiot. Get outta of here.
Every anime writer: Demon I say, demon. Villain of villains. Sex appeal is mind control it is.
Was the writer of this anime so out of touch to think a whispering women can give people suicide erections in an instant was a great idea for a villain? I guess so because we have this. Since your here reading this I apologise, not for wasting your time, but for the fact that this story even made it to becoming an anime.
This pile of a show merits no more use of my brain power and yours, let's forget it and steer our loved ones from stepping in it.
