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← darkroom
[Spoilers] Jobless Reincarnation - a Little context for what some people see and hate especially in E6
I've read the Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation Manga but this doesn't have any spoilers from anything past episode 6 and it barely has any spoilers for these 6 episodes too
I believe this is one of the best Isekai stories ever and Rudeus is one of the best well-developed anime characters of all time and if you read this you might agree with me.
Sorry if my English is weird.
- It's a little lengthy but it's necessary. this show might look very simple and light but it tackles some deep issues.
- these are just my opinions, I'm just some guy and just take what I say with a grain of salt.
- I don't mean to offend or insult anyone's opinion even when my writing seems aggressive, just put that on my limited understanding of English language.
- also saying something depicted in anime promotes that action in real life is as dumb as saying videogames promote violent actions. I'm sorry but that's just what it is.
Before we go on I have to say Ecchi and harem are some of the only things I always hate in Animes, they're never used for any purpose other than fan service and that just kills the whole mood of the show for me unless the main theme is comedy. but it's somewhat different in this show, if you actually see the characters for what they are in a more realistic light you'll see all of them are just acting exactly the way they should. these people aren't supposed to be heroes and saints even if they have those titles.
This show talks about racism, harassment, privilege, depression, bullying, hubris, delusions and so much more. it just doesn't shove everything in our faces so we'll have to take it with our own understanding and morals.
I've seen some people aren't happy about the overly sexualized theme of the show and call it unrealistic for most of the characters to be so sexual;
The world we're living in is messed up, some people decide to ignore and focus on the good, me, I'm a realist, EVERYONE IS ALWAYS HORNY IN REAL LIFE! people fuck and lie and cheat all the time. even children do messed up things to each other. (read some news)
here we're talking about a fantasy world in medieval times. do a little research about historical figures and you'll see how much even hornier everyone was in the past and the messed up things they did. this show might look light and fluffy but it's actually more realistic than you might think.
- the maid and the wife are women so you think they shouldn't get horny cuz they're women? it's not natural for them to have needs? it's not normal for them to want it?
- the father is living in a world that rewards men of his nature and you expect him to just be a white knight and not be tempted? he's not supposed to be hero, being the main character's father or a family guy doesn't turn you into a saint, nope in real life that's when you're tempted the most.(he's a piece of shit though)
- the teacher is a growing girl (even Rudeus literally said it) you think she just should be a saint just cuz we'd like that more? this is far more realistic than the clueless girl trope in almost all animes.
- the teacher's new student is a prince, in a society like theirs he'll get whatever he wants including pussy. I'm not defending it, I'm just saying when you have a kid and give him literally everything he'll ever want you'll end up with an entitled brat that even assaults a woman just cuz he thinks he has the right to always get what he wants (a certain former leader irl) Just cuz it makes you uncomfortable doesn't mean they shouldn't have it on the series.
- Rudeus got the mind of someone who thinks this world is his new Ecchi game;
think about who he is, he doesn't know how to socialize with others, you might say he's doing pretty well interacting with everyone like a pro for someone who doesn't know how to talk to people and that's the point. he's just pretending and faking it, most of the things he's doing are from the novels and games and anime's he watched in his previous life(he even says it a couple of times) he's treating this world and its people as a game, he's doing things and talking to people like a character in one of his books would do, there are a couple of times the reality slaps him in the face but he goes back into his fantasy again. his internal dialogue shows his mindset, he sees the evens and people as tropes(childhood friend trope - little sister trope - tsundere trope - the gifted Isekaied MC trope) he always connects these events and people to some kind of game or anime or novel trope because that's the only way he can deal with them. if they're Tropes then he dealt with them thousands of times in his games and novels and animes but if they're real-life situations he just doesn't know how the deal with them.
Do you know why he's like that? cuz he doesn't know how to operate in the real world, he doesn't have the experience for it, that's why he soon died after his siblings threw him out cuz he did something that one of his anime characters would do and that got him killed! he's slowly starting to realize the differences between real-life, real people and his fantasies and NPCs. I'm sorry if it's not fast enough, but in reality, when someone's set in their ways, it takes a lot for them to have a substantial change.
Now let's talk about the thing that triggered some people in episode 6; btw I'm not defending his action or anything, I already knew what he'll do and I was still yelling at the screen and calling him an idiot.
Right now Rudeus subconsciously sees everyone in his life as NPCs and they're there to make his life interesting cuz in his mind he's the main character of this world's story, in the video game when you kill an NPC you don't feel bad cuz they served their purpose of entertaining you, Rudeus thinks touching an NPC in their sleep should be fine cuz that's what NPCs are here for but he's slowly starting to realize the standards of a real-life and a game life are different, you might think "Well that's dumb, how does he not know that at his age" but that's because you're a relatively mentally mature and healthy human being but he's not a mentally healthy adult! he isolated himself from real-world interactions and people and even though he got smarter with time he never matured and evolved, I'm 30 and I can't even recognize my 18yo self, these 12 years of real-world experience matured me and I'm still not even fully matured. Rudeus's ideas of people and their existence comes from two sources, his messed up student life and his even more messed up otaku life.
here's why you shouldn't just write off this show and Rudeus's character for just that scene or his pervy nature. you can get mad at him for his age difference(even though that's a whole argument itself) and you'll say it's clear-cut and just wrong, but to him, that shouldn't be a problem cuz it's not clear-cut for him(for the reasons I just explained). it's like watching "Leon the professional" and just saying "that's just wrong and I'm not even gonna discuss it cuz it's clearly pedophilia and there is no discussion that can be had about this subject" but if you just go straight to the act and condemn it without considering what caused it, you'll leave no room for discussion and that's the whole point of that movie's complicated situation. so before jumping at the gun and #cancel this show and this character, just consider the dept of his dysfunctional personality and you'll see that is very entertaining in a dark way, cuz at the end of the day this show or that movie are just entertainment and your enjoyment depends on how you'll take it!
This Novel (Manga/Anime) is just too close to real life and real actions(on some aspects, not all) and that makes people uncomfortable. cuz it's packaged in the form that doesn't seem to shove its dark theme and message into our face instead lets us figure that out cuz IRL these issues are usually very subtle, hidden, and neatly packaged as something that people will miss easily. but a lot of people still treat Anime as just light cartoons and don't really consider the multiple layers behind the thing they just watched!!
You also have to understand that this form of media we call anime always targets issues and subjects that other forms of media don't even dare to talk about, sometimes they do it gracefully and sometimes they do it aggressively, and in both ways sometimes the depiction is brilliant and sometimes not so much! censorship is a scourge of the western society and media, and I'm glad anime is rarely affected by it. I don't think any subject should be left out. as long as you don't glorify something negative it shouldn't be censored.
As Mark Twain said "Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it"
Sorry, it got too long. I didn't write this to defend any person or any action, I'm just sharing my own flawed understanding of these events and character so we can have a constructive dialogue about these issues.
I'm not a fanboy of this series, I have my own issues with this series(Manga/Anime) and there are things I would consider its flaws and mistakes.____
Ayo y'know you didn't mark what anime you're talking about right? Like I know what you're referring to but you didn't put it as a tag or anything
I can just list a lot of pervs before this one as said it's already been done before really
It confuses me when people witness something they declare it as first time ever or so but has no idea it has been done before like the typical perv character trope for example
Plus because of this day in age current modern day society, a lot of people are hella sensitive to where it makes no sense. Certain issues that were pointed out like this anime, yea it's understandable but what do you expect? it's been shown many times before over.
Kinda like how certain people aren't accustomed to reality and such
thanks for this I dropped this anime and I guess now I am gonna continue it
Wise decision, this is definitely a series worth watching, dropping it at this point in the show would be a disservice to yourself
the teacher is a growing girl (even Rudeus literally said it) you think she just should be a saint just cuz we'd like that more? this is far more realistic than the clueless girl trope in almost all animes.
The problem is not that she is horny, the problem is how she deals with it. Sitting on the floor masturbating to two people having sex instead of doing it in her room is just not very believable.
the teacher's new student is a prince, in a society like theirs he'll get whatever he wants including pussy. I'm not defending it, I'm just saying when you have a kid and give him literally everything he'll ever want you'll end up with an entitled brat that even assaults a woman just cuz he thinks he has the right to always get what he wants (a certain former leader irl) Just cuz it makes you uncomfortable doesn't mean they shouldn't have it on the series.
Indeed. Problem is, the anime doesn't nearly protray it as seriously as it should be. The way I see it, it's mostly played for jokes.
it takes a lot for them to have a substantial change.
Funny that you say that after it took a whole two minutes for him to get over his trauma with people looking at him. That was way too fast.
Now to the actual part. The problem is not that Rudeus did what he did in Episode six. The problem is that the anime treated it as a joke when it happened. Eris is leagues above Rundeus in the social order. What should've happened is him getting executed and her rightfully hating her. Instead we got her starting to like him and he has a character turn that is essentially not justified within the plot. And that is just not how writing works.
I had no problem with the father cheating (although I'd wager that it would've been better if we explored some sort of depression of the mother more as she is imprisoned by the patriachic system she lives is.) because it was portrayed as him being scum. But The grown man sexually harrassing a nine year old was - as far as I gathered it - played for jokes. Because it did not have the consequences it should've had. And that's not how good writing works.PS:
The prince licking the Roxy figurine is another example. It's so stupid that it's comical, again connecting something that you claim is a serious point as something comedic. Which simply does not work out. You can't just lose all seriousness about the topic from one moment to the other. That's not how themes/atmosphere/however you want to call it work.
'The problem is not that she is horny, the problem is how she deals with it. Sitting on the floor masturbating to two people having sex instead of doing it in her room is just not very believable.'
except it is, have you never heard of a voyeur? or the concept that hearing/seeing them going at it would turn her on and make her act out like that?
'(although I'd wager that it would've been better if we explored some sort of depression of the mother more as she is imprisoned by the patriachic system she lives is)'
bruh moment. she's a strong former adventurer who made it work with paul because of her own decision and the strongest character shown so far is a woman that everyone seems to have tons of respect for, in what world is the mother trapped by a patriarchal system?
'What should've happened is him getting executed and her rightfully hating her. Instead we got her starting to like him and he has a character turn that is essentially not justified within the plot. And that is just not how writing works.'
Except once again you are wrong. It's absolutely justified in the plot because the anime -very- clearly displayed that she was starting to like and respect him before that point, she just doesn't wear her affection on her sleeve or anything. So yes, she forgave him instead of having him executed, shocking. Sure would have been amazing writing if the main character died though, ya got me.
I don't really care to go into tons of detail on perversion being played for laughs, but it's an ingrained part of Japanese and anime culture. Get over it holy shit, they are fictional characters, stop projecting and acting like it should be treated super seriously. That last part applies to so many people losing their shit over this show lmao
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Aye, voyourism exists. But did the girl needed to be that? Was there any point for it in the story (you know the thing about guns and third acts).
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Aye. And she got a five year old child. Adventuring is off Limits. And from what we were shown in the Anime, the wealth probably comes from Paul's side since he is related to that noble family. If she was that strong and Independent, it would've been almost worse writing that she didn't leave. Because Paul obviously didn't learn his lesson.
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Ah yes. Starting to like someone is reason to forgive sexual assault. But too be fair, executed is a bit much, I went a bit far. Getting fired for example isn't. All the consequence for sexual assault being the same for him daring to teach a girl (or honestly just existing around her) is not a consequence if you want to display a serious topic (which the oc apparently velieved was the case and is the only excuse for doing so).
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Ah yes, part of its culture is of course a counter argument, very valid. Excuse me, I'll just throw my beliefs in morals and my experience as a writer overboard because the Japanese can't help themselves to casualise sexual assault (but it is an interesting point of discussion to see how this reflects on the Japanese culture and its sexism problem). No, I don't think I will. Instead I will continue to point out writing that makes the show (that could've been great) in my - and many others' - mind worse.
I don't mind ecchi. But there's a place and a time for it.
I guess I just don't think it's the place of a bunch of keyboard warriors to go no Japan, your successful separation from fiction and reality is wrong and how dare you have a form of humour deeply ingrained in anime? Thank the lord western keyboard warriors are here to protect those 2D characters that are totally living beings. Yes, there's a time and a place for lewd jokes/fanservice, and the creatives behind these shows get to decide where that is, because it's their creation. I just don't see why people get so up in arms about this and act like it's a goddamn moral issue that they take everything so seriously when the media itself isn't.
The show is great by the way. The production values are positively insane, best of the season by far. Plot moves along at an excellent steady pace. Some moral grandstanding where it isn't needed and does nothing but harm actual discussion wont take that way. It doesn't bother me if someone wants to go oh Japan has full separation of reality from fiction and so thinks its fine to make jokes about anything in animated content? Ew, gross, I wont watch that then. But when people projecting their own inability to do come in and start acting like it's an actual flaw of writing and needs to be changed? That's trying to change decades of culture to fit narrow-minded viewpoints.
Everyone can have their own opinion on whether or not this scene is acceptable. A 40 year old groping a minor? Ehhhh, I'll barely excuse that one for the sake of showcasing the protagonists shitty character as a means to improve it further down the story, fine.
A 40 year old groping a minor played as a "joke" with no actual repercussions for the protagonist? Rather not. The scene evokes a strong emotional response in the viewer without it actually mattering in the story. What could have been used as a controversial, yet somewhat legitimate, way to develop the character end up being a loose end that never gets resolved, because his punishment ended with the common tsundere slap trope. Hahaa!!! Isn't the show supposed to be the redemption arc of rudeus? Wasted scene, bad writing.
Which is saddening when the author clearly is a very talented writer, as seen in many other aspects of the show.
if you think good writing is about punishing every bad deed, then . . .
sometimes a mistake or an offense is about learning not punishing. and they showed it in the next episode. so where's the loose end?
I already explained in my response to "ThanatosLOB" about how this wasn't a joke and why there are no repercussions and why it makes perfect sense(actually is much more realistic)
not understanding the meanings behind the actions of an author is fine but you can't blame the author for not hand feeding you every meaning either!
PPS:
I would really love to reply to that last comment and if it was just to state the objective truth that Wonder Egg Priority knocks Jobless out of the pool with its production values. But unfortunately, the coward blocked me. What a shame.No need to insult me just because I don't want to talk to you anymore is there? A decision to end a conversation doesn't fit the definition of cowardice.
someday you gotta learn that spouting some nonsense to make it a full essay and say something's bad writing by only giving your opinion isn't gonna be as well received as just stating your opinion
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The problem is not that she is horny, the problem is how she deals with it. Sitting on the floor masturbating to two people having sex instead of doing it in her room is just not very believable.
no, it's pretty believable. you clearly don't like it, but it is believable. young people do some pretty stupid things. you might think it's unbelievable cuz you'll never touch yourself anywhere risky, but you can't expect others to do what you're comfortable with. you can say you don't like seeing that but saying it's unbelievable is pretty . . . .
Indeed. Problem is, the anime doesn't nearly protray it as seriously as it should be. The way I see it, it's mostly played for jokes.
just like I said, it's your job to take it seriously or not. the problem with anime is that 95% of all anime out there just dumb down and simplify their message and theme to make sure we get it they just have to spoon feed all their point to us like babies, but when there's an anime that actually gives us all the underlying foundation of an issue, and trusts in its audience intelligence to figure out the undertones, we say it's not doing enough. well, I for one don't like a message shoved in my face. I prefer to come to a conclusion myself.
Funny that you say that after it took a whole two minutes for him to get over his trauma with people looking at him. That was way too fast.
well, he was already dealing with this issue and Roxy saw it (when he was looking over the wall at kids playing) he didn't really just get over it. Roxy \took him out to show him there's nothing to be afraid of. she showed him whatever scares him about going out is probably not as bad as he thinks it is. and he didn't immediately turn into a social butterfly! you do realize there are time jumps right? also this is just a very small aspect of his dysfunctions. even after going out, he's still treating this world and its people as his fantasy.
Now to the actual part. The problem is not that Rudeus did what he did in Episode six. The problem is that the anime treated it as a joke when it happened. Eris is leagues above Rundeus in the social order. What should've happened is him getting executed and her rightfully hating her. Instead we got her starting to like him and he has a character turn that is essentially not justified within the plot. And that is just not how writing works.
I repeat myself, it's a joke if you take it as just a joke. the best comedy comes from dark places. you're probably one of the people that hates Ricky Gervais's style of comedy, he's not making light of racism and sexual issues, he's holding a mirror to its audience. and some people don't like what they see.
why would she hate him? you're forgetting she's a child, she doesn't really know much hate and disgust. her actions are imitations of what she sees in her day to day life. she's just forming her personality. her violent nature isn't even hers, it's an imitation of her grandpa. I suggest watching the movie "Pretty Baby" to see what does a child imitation is like. it's about a child living in a brothel and becoming a child prostitute herself, it really shows how clueless she is and how she's just doing what everyone around her is doing and thinks it's normal when in reality it's abhorrent. that movie's gonna make you think deep. Although the excessive nudity in it is necessary, it's still very uncomfortable and too much for me so be warned.
your view of what you saw is so simplified. you're seeing things from your point of view, you're thinking if I were her that's what I would do. but you should put yourself in their shoes with their limited understanding. how do you think millions of sexual acts on children happen without anyone knowing until years later.I had no problem with the father cheating (although I'd wager that it would've been better if we explored some sort of depression of the mother more as she is imprisoned by the patriachic system she lives is.) because it was portrayed as him being scum. But The grown man sexually harrassing a nine year old was - as far as I gathered it - played for jokes. Because it did not have the consequences it should've had. And that's not how good writing works.
She's not imprisoned, she could throw him out. she was a strong adventurer too. take the "Patriarchal" bullshit out of here please. women aren't weak and meek. they can stand up for themselves and do anything. I'm sick of people who think they're being open-minded and progressive treating women like they're always helpless victims who can't do anything and that's the biggest aspect of a woman's identity. do you have any idea of how condescending that is to real feminism and women right?
The joke is how you take it. if you took it as nothing more than a joke then you should take a look at yourself cuz I already explained in detail the significance of what you took as "just a joke" and they even followed up on that on the next episode. As for consequences, this might shock you, but in reality, when someone does something wrong there's often no consequences or the consequences are very very late. I don't know how you think "Do bad things, bad things happen to you fast" would be "Good writing".
She's actually starting to develop her own personality too. I don't know how you watch this show and miss every point. an entitled child that was never denied anything, she was either adored by her family without question or feared by her servants. her life with no direction or challenge. then came a person that immediately shattered this pattern. he didn't praise her or fear her. he challenged her and gave her directions but never forced her to take that path. he showed her things she's capable of that even she didn't know was possible. she learned how to face a challenge and overcome it thanks to him. she learned it's more satisfying to earn things than just getting them. she grew to respect this person and you think that's not realistic for her to like this person? you must live a lonely life if one wrong can blind you to a dozen rights!
and I don't know if you watched the Ep7 but they pretty much confirmed what I was saying about that incident. Rudy got the chance to do exactly what he did in Ep6 but this time he didn't, he saw the ring and the wand in Eris's hand and it was a cold reminder for him that she's not a toy for his enjoyment, she's a human being with heart, goals, feelings, ambitions, and love. he's getting the weight of his predatory act as he called himself a wolf. he's starting to get that people have their own life and goals and paths, they're not just there to make his life entertaining.
I personally have a really hard time rooting for a forty-something-year-old MC who gets this weird sexual thrill by removing a nine-year-old child's panties while she's sleeping after he cops a feel. I understand Rudeus as a character and acknowledge how he became the person he is and why he acts the way he does, but that doesn't remove my desire to see him experience Subaru levels of fantastical torture after being forced to witness this depravity lol
The sexual stuff in this show is actually starting to bother me too and don't understand why it even needs to be there, for example in episode 7:
Philip's, goes up to Rudeus in the party (who is currently around 10) and literally tells him to use protection if he's gonna fuck any of the other 12-year-old girls that come up to him. It's just so sexual in areas it doesn't need to be and it's slightly creepy, like why is an adult talking about this shit with a 10-year-old child??
I usually love ecchi shit in shows but this does make me go bruh. And I also feel like Rudeus's dad's dick was the main protagonist for the first few epsThe Greyrats are a whole problem.
Don't forget granpappy Greyrat absolutely railing a random beastgirl maid in a public location where a child could stumble upon them lol
My discomfort with Rudy was only compounded thanks to the scene with Philip that you highlighted. He was so down to boink a preteen girl before Eris pulled him away.
Again, how am I supposed to root for this pedo freak? lmao
the sad thing is it's not just him, all the people men in this show think with just their dicks
you're looking at this show from your 21century point of view and morals developed for this time.
it's a show in old times. 15yo was an adult to them.
Google "Banquet of Chestnuts" as just one example of those times!
forget about medieval times, in the last 130 years, there were actual legal brothels that supplied child prostitutes in places like the US. just because we're used to this kind of modern morality that's centered around protecting innocence doesn't mean it was the same centuries ago!You said you like Ecchi but this show's making you uncomfortable. isn't that the whole point? Ecchi in other shows is just pointless fan service, the fact that it doesn't give you the same feeling of excitement shows this wasn't meant to be fan service, there's a darker message behind it.
I am really bad at explaining myself, your post is perfect so from now on I will just send it to the people when they say that Rudeus is shit, people really should stop looking at him as "the MC", the show mostly shows how "not MC" he is, the princess is more suited for being MC and Rudeus for a side character if it wasn't for the Isekai, and not for the seriousness of the show and what it tells.
I also like to compare him to Kazuma from Konosuba, like nobody really cares that he steals pantsu while everyone sees it, but Rudeus is bad, even tho he is really embarrassed when people find him. and in the 7 episode which is out now, he stopped himself from touching her that considered "normal", even the show doesn't give much feedback on it, but as the viewer, you see it as a great achievement for Rudeus.people don't have the patience to see real growth in a person. cuz real growth is small and gradual. just like stopping himself in Ep7 and calling himself "a wolf".
some people say that's just the bare minimum and you shouldn't praise people for doing the bare minimum. yeah, that might be true for normal people, but if someone has control issues with something any progress is praiseworthy. that's why AA participants even have a one-week sober chip! cuz every little bit counts.
it just feels weird seeing people defending pedophilia as a character flaw lol
I read the manga and Rudeus didnt come of as this much of a creep as far as I could remember he was a pervy dude tho. I read the barn scene in the manga and yup no groping or panty removal so why put it in? thats why I love the manga because it removes the more problematic aspects of the story
side note: to illustrate the level of mental gymnastics we are talking about when there is discussion about this anime:
Imagine a LN where Jared fucking Fogle was reincarnated in another world and lets say it's the best isekai ever made 10/10 everything... BUT he was a creep to some kids in the story. Its gonna be a deal breaker to some right?
are people wrong to feel this way because Jared had a super hard life in the real world? its absurd right, "oh Jared is a pedo but he gets better as the story goes on" this is basically what everyone is saying rn lolit just feels weird seeing people defending pedophilia as a character flaw lol
well, I'm not gonna repeat all the things I mentioned. especially about the stupidity of censorship just because some people are overly sensitive.
and yes, pedophilia is a character flaw, so is smoking, sexual promiscuity, adultery, being a murderer, and so on. some are worst and some are better. you just feel like "that one" is so much worst that it doesn't feel right calling it a flaw, but that's just your feelings, it doesn't change what it is.
I just don't see him as a "pedo", I like to take all the circumstances into account when it comes to an action and a title before making my judgment but you just want to exclude the action from any other circumstances surrounding it. basically, how they say lady justice is blind, it's pretty much the reason why if you pee at a playground in the middle of the night with no children around while you're drunk, you'll end up on a sex offender's list. stupid judgments like that happen when one excludes the circumstances from one's judgment.
the problem with this overly sensitive culture of us is that we feel like some subjects are so taboo that we can't even mention them let alone explore and try to understand them. and we're so blindly trying to censor all that we can or represent them in exactly the way we feel these subjects should be presented that we actually deprive ourselves of half the understanding of the issue and by doing so make ourselves even more vulnerable to the very issue we're afraid of, because when we force ourself to look at a problem from one angle we basically will never know the whole problem, and since this is the kind of ignorance we caused ourselves, we're not going to be able to find a solution for it. this is pretty much the reason we're always struggling to properly prevent issues like domestic violence, rape, pedophilia, and other sensitive issues, because when we're faced with them we're in such a rush to condemn them that we rush through every reason and cause and neglect them so we can get to the conclusion that we all already agree on.I read the manga and Rudeus didnt come of as this much of a creep as far as I could remember he was a pervy dude tho. I read the barn scene in the manga and yup no groping or panty removal so why put it in? thats why I love the manga because it removes the more problematic aspects of the story
I haven't read the LN but I hear this show follows the LN more than the Manga which is simply the right choice and more respectful to the author vision as well.
Imagine a LN where Jared fucking Fogle was reincarnated in another world and lets say it's the best isekai ever made 10/10 everything... BUT he was a creep to some kids in the story. Its gonna be a deal breaker to some right?
are people wrong to feel this way because Jared had a super hard life in the real world? its absurd right, "oh Jared is a pedo but he gets better as the story goes on" this is basically what everyone is saying rn lolYou can be offended by whatever you choose to be offended by and that's the point here. you're the one who chooses to be offended by fictional characters and their actions that have and will never have any effects on real-world, instead of grasping the deeper messages behind the events.
no man like I get that this is a story of redemption to Rudy so I get it and I really like the manga, BUT all I'm trying to say is that we should acknowledge that its creepy (esp. since the inner voice is a 30-ish man) and there is really no merit to defend this particular character flaw just cause we know as watchers/readers the things Rudy has gone through (ohh woe is Rudy)
you can do all the mental gymnastics you want but at the end of the day this is about a 30-something man touching a young girl without consent (and even though biologically he's 10 this is overshadowed by the fact that to him he is still really a 30-something). And really in this particular case no amount of tragic backstory can justify what he did (even if you looked at it in context and grasped the deeper messages) so why bother defending just say you like the story despite the flaws in Rudy's character I certainly still do
isn't that the point you were trying to make that despite his flaws the story is still worth a continue?
and so in conclusion maybe stop defending a pedo with convoluted logic. And I don't think the author wanted you to defend Rudy either if his goal was to portray his fictional character as a genuine scumbag at the start and become a fully redeemed character by the end, right?
this was the point about my Jared Tensei plot OK, that maybe its not worth to defend Jared, because the plot and the story invites people to be offended at Jared's action; it was made to be offensive. This was a given from the start. That wasn't about "people being offended by whatever you choose to be offended" it was the author saying to be offended at the actions of Jared. He wants you to be offended to make his eventual redemption so much worth it. And if you were not offended you just missed the whole point the author was trying to make then. He wanted someone that is beyond saving, beyond redemption. And if the author did write it to make the audience horny then that's another can of worms. Basically the author wants to offend the readers to dislike the MC and so don't defend Rudy because defending him is the one thing the author would never want since he wanted a scumbag MC for his eventual redemption.
PS: this is why I said that I liked the manga more because I don't have to grapple the concepts that the MC may be a pedo, pervy towards kids maybe but not really go balls deep you know ... Its just the sort of things we don't think about when watching anime I certainly don't bat an eye at these sort of things anymore so this really didn't offend me as much as I found it creepy
no man like I get that this is a story of redemption to Rudy so I get it and I really like the manga, BUT all I'm trying to say is that we should acknowledge that its creepy (esp. since the inner voice is a 30-ish man) and there is really no merit to defend this particular character flaw just cause we know as watchers/readers the things Rudy has gone through (ohh woe is Rudy)
no one said it's not creepy and I wasn't defending it either, I said it in the first post too.
I'm just saying there's a legitimate reason for all of these.you can do all the mental gymnastics you want but at the end of the day this is about a 30-something man touching a young girl without consent (and even though biologically he's 10 this is overshadowed by the fact that to him he is still really a 30-something). And really in this particular case no amount of tragic backstory can justify what he did (even if you looked at it in context and grasped the deeper messages) so why bother defending just say you like the story despite the flaws in Rudy's character I certainly still do
isn't that the point you were trying to make that despite his flaws the story is still worth a continue?I'm not gonna explain to you about circumstances again, cuz you would've listened the first time if you wanted.
no one's trying to justify it, you're missing the whole point I'm trying to make. this isn't about justifying it or defending it. this is about making a point that this thing he did, as uncomfortable as it was, was the right and realistic choice of action and consequences by the author. this post is about how people blew a fuse about that scene and were calling it a dumb choice and unrealistic. I even said it in the title it's about "Context" of what happened and why. that's why I bother writing this, it's not defending the character, it's defending actually good writing for ones in this genre.and so in conclusion maybe stop defending a pedo with convoluted logic. And I don't think the author wanted you to defend Rudy either if his goal was to portray his fictional character as a genuine scumbag at the start and become a fully redeemed character by the end, right?
so I already explained how you completely missed the entire point of both the original post and the follow-up reply and how not only I don't see him as a "pedo" but also wasn't defending it. if my logic is convoluted and hard to follow for you feel free to not respond to it, I don't feel the need to dumb down my points, considering you didn't reply to any of my points like I'm doing with your post. it ultimately comes down to someone calling someone a "title" and the rest are too afraid to comment on that sensitive title. well, you can call him a "pedo" as much as you'd like, I'm still gonna come back with proper logic.
Here's an example of a certain kind of logic that I could use against you but I'm not that desperate to prove a point:
since you're the one who believes Rudy is a "pedo", if you still like the character or his journey(which you admitted you do), then it's you who willingly likes a "pedo" and their journey. that's pretty much how I can use your own words against you! but I'm trying to make a logical point I'm not trying to win a pointless argument!this was the point about my Jared Tensei plot OK, that maybe its not worth to defend Jared, because the plot and the story invites people to be offended at Jared's action; it was made to be offensive. This was a given from the start. That wasn't about "people being offended by whatever you choose to be offended" it was the author saying to be offended at the actions of Jared. He wants you to be offended to make his eventual redemption so much worth it. And if you were not offended you just missed the whole point the author was trying to make then. He wanted someone that is beyond saving, beyond redemption. And if the author did write it to make the audience horny then that's another can of worms. Basically the author wants to offend the readers to dislike the MC and so don't defend Rudy because defending him is the one thing the author would never want since he wanted a scumbag MC for his eventual redemption.
this is frustrating, people usually understand when I explain once or twice, plz read the original post once again cuz I don't feel like repeating myself. hating Rudy or his actions serves no point here. there's nothing beyond saving when we're talking about Rudy, his life is regrettable but it's not even close to "Beyond saving" and "beyond redemption". this is why I said, "people being offended by whatever you choose to be offended". that's just what you believe in, you think that scene made Rudy "Beyond redeemable". it must be a lonely life you live if one bad deed can blind you to a dozen of good deeds.
you said the author want's us to dislike the MC and not defend him(which I already said multiple times I wasn't defending Rudy, I'm defending the author's choice) and yet you provide not a single logical reason behind what you claim to be the indistinguishable reason behind the author's choice! why would you make your MC disliked? that's how people drop a novel. unless you immediately change and redeem the MC in a ridiculously fast anime way, but thank god Rudy's development is gradual and logical. Imagine if "JK Rowling" made a book about the homophobic character that eventually will develop into someone with understanding in the third book! do you think people will follow the story until book 3 to finally get to that development? look at the discussions about this very show, it's just 7 episodes and so many people are already offended and are mad why he's not changed yet! It's about taking the message the way you like to take it and some people are just too sensitive. and when someone is too sensitive, they just take the point the way it serves to reinforce their offended nature.PS: this is why I said that I liked the manga more because I don't have to grapple the concepts that the MC may be a pedo, pervy towards kids maybe but not really go balls deep you know ... Its just the sort of things we don't think about when watching anime I certainly don't bat an eye at these sort of things anymore so this really didn't offend me as much as I found it creepy
well, I don't like someone sugar coat something for me cuz it might be too harsh for my taste! I like to take it as it is and decide as an adult how to take it. that's why I respect something like "Devilman Crybaby" or "Berserk" cuz even though they are way way too raw and brutal for my taste, I still appreciate having the option to take it as it is and forming my decision, instead of getting the "Funimation" version of them that might be politically corrected but betrayed the source material. I want to like something cuz I decided to like it instead of some third-party hiding somethings to make it more mainstream. it comes right back to my points about censorship for mass apeal.
also, anime is full of stuff like this, in "Chobits" the main character has to turn on an android with a child like mind by putting his finger inside her . . . . and pressing a button. in "How not to summon a demon lord" the MC literally finger bangs a 14yo girl on the screen! hell on "Dragon Ball" Bulma offers to show coochie to a 12yo Goku. and there are so many more like these and worst even, but people choose to not get offended by them,heads-up: when I'm all capping its not to shout just emphasize some points. So don't take it personally or anything
no one said it's not creepy and I wasn't defending it either, I said it in the first post too.
I'm just saying there's a legitimate reason for all of these.so I already explained how you completely missed the entire point of both the original post and the follow-up reply and how not only I don't see him as a "pedo" but also wasn't defending it
Ok so you think Rudy is a NOT a pedo even though he does things that objectively are pedo. I dont get you man, even though you said you aren't defending Rudy the stance you took on the issue is that "he wasn't a pedo"?
Its like saying "I am not defending Mr A, he definitely murdered Mrs. B BUT Mr. A is not a murder tho" lol you are literally defending Rudy rn and you cant even see it
You understand my confusion and the disconnect between what you are saying? You see why I was convinced you were defending Rudy despite what you said of not defending his actions but the author's? If you weren't defending Rudy, just say you think he's objectively a pedo otherwise you just will just contradict yourself. Coz by saying he isn't one, when we as an audience knows that what he did was kinda pedo you literally just defended Rudy and not the author (as what you genuinely thought). Just say "yea I'ts pedo But I respect the author's choice anyway" otherwise you were defeated by your own words.
well, I don't like someone sugar coat something for me cuz it might be too harsh for my taste! I like to take it as it is and decide as an adult how to take it. that's why I respect something like "Devilman Crybaby" or "Berserk" cuz even though they are way way too raw and brutal for my taste, I still appreciate having the option to take it as it is and forming my decision, instead of getting the "Funimation" version of them that might be politically corrected but betrayed the source material. I want to like something cuz I decided to like it instead of some third-party hiding somethings to make it more mainstream. it comes right back to my points about censorship for mass apeal.
The difference is that "Devilman Crybaby" And "Berserk" treats its subjects WITH RESPECT. Casca didn't just slap Griffith and said "kyaa ecchi!" now did she? It was handled very seriously her mind literally broke and we had to go on this surreal journey inside her mind to rescue her and even then that didn't completely fix her, the trauma still remained THAT IS RESPECT
but in MT it was more of a "lol such a funny scene he so pervy to underage girl, get bonked" fan service, which makes sense in the context that no one knows he is actually 30 years old BUT we as an audience know better and that recontextualizes the scene. And because we know that MT isnt that sort of show it just came off in the worst way.
This show is portraying itself as a character piece about this broken human and his eventual redemption, and the author might have wanted to portray that scene with more nuance with inner monologue of Rudy AND I RESPECT THAT CHOICE as it makes Rudy interesting than some generic isekai protag. BUT if that was what the author wanted the anime didn't capture that tone at all, it just came of as "fan service". Did the author wrote this scene to portray how depraved Rudy was or was it to be fan service? Coz If this was a "fan service" show just so you know I will not bat an eye, I will have zero fucks to give honestly, I would not care
also, anime is full of stuff like this, in "Chobits" the main character has to turn on an android with a child like mind by putting his finger inside her . . . . and pressing a button. in "How not to summon a demon lord" the MC literally finger bangs a 14yo girl on the screen!
I HAVE NO PROBLEM with "lol such a funny scene he so pervy to underage girl, get bonked" in the PROPER CONTEXT. "Chobits" and "How not to summon a demon lord" were NEVER MADE to be taken seriously in this level. Are you telling me "How not to summon a demon lord" is a character study of an awkward man and his struggles to become less awkward? Maybe, maybe BUT that is NOT the point of the show at all is it? And "Chobits" its a robot who honestly gives a shit.
OR are you telling me that MT is on the same level as "Chobits" and "How not to summon a demon lord"?
(never saw "Chobits" just know its some romcom about robots so it might be the best anime ever made and I will never know)
hell on "Dragon Ball" Bulma offers to show coochie to a 12yo Goku. and there are so many more like these and worst even, but people choose to not get offended by them,
And I don't know if you and I are thinking of the same scene in dragonball since I wasn't lucky enough to see the show before Z. But if what you are referring to was the scene where Goku took off Bulma's panties, of course no one would get offended Goku is a REAL child and has NO CONCEPT of sex at all, IT WAS A JOKE to illustrate how pure he is, that he never saw a woman in his life
since you're the one who believes Rudy is a "pedo", if you still like the character or his journey(which you admitted you do), then it's you who willingly likes a "pedo" and their journey. that's pretty much how I can use your own words against you! but I'm trying to make a logical point I'm not trying to win a pointless argument!
this literally applies to you as much as does me. So you just metaphorically punched your self in the face. See I can use your words against you too, think about that next time smart guy. Or are you saying that you made this thread defending the author's choices because you hated the story?
Look I was exposed to the manga version of Rudy so it didn't bother me as much as it could. And really what bothered me is the consent part of the action (WHICH REMEMBER WAS'NT IN THE MANGA and really isn't the only problem) and if it was portrayed that way in the manga, I might not necessarily drop reading but that will always be at the back of my mind, which isn't enjoyable since the goal is immersion.
IF this was ANY OTHER ISEKAI POWER FANTASY SELF INSERT GENERIC PLOT I WOULD NOT CARE IF he diddles some underage girls because I would be bored and who gives a shit there are thousands of those out there
But since this show WANTS US TO TAKE IT SERIOUSLY BECAUSE IT HAS SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE THEN MAYBE, MAYBE I WANT THINGS TO BE HANDLED WITH SOME RESPECT and I am sorry for wanting that much in this show.
Clearly the theme of sex is very prevalent in this series just like how Rudy saw Roxy fingering herself, Rudy knew enough to respect Roxy and not go hentai protagonist and harass her right? He as a red blooded male acknowledges that it was hot as most of us would but knew enough that he should respect Roxy and not approach her in that moment. It was well handled.
But that scene in the barn is harder to justify does it, I get that Rudy is a perv but maybe just a peak, maybe to cop a feel, but not go all remove her panties because what does that imply about our MC that he would do it if she never woke up? I just wished it was handled better that's all. And if they did go that route maybe have the relationship of Rudy and Eris be significantly tarnished and maybe Rudy has to earn back the trust that was lost BUT NOO it was a "fan service" scene. This is what I meant when I said "it removes the more problematic aspects of the story" its not so much that HE DID IT but what happened afterwards or the immediate consequenses of his actions didn't feel justified
Imagine a LN where Jared fucking Fogle was reincarnated in another world and lets say it's the best isekai ever made 10/10 everything... BUT he was a creep to some kids in the story. Its gonna be a deal breaker to some right?
are people wrong to feel this way because Jared had a super hard life in the real world? its absurd right, "oh Jared is a pedo but he gets better as the story goes on" this is basically what everyone is saying rn lolthis is my quote: notice how I said that it may be a deal breaker to SOME? And how "are people wrong to feel this way" that coz I was never talking about my self, I was talking about how other's may perceive the show and how absurd it is that people would actually defend Rudy of all people by saying "he gets better as the story goes on" because while that is true that may not be enough to some.
What I was defending was that other's have the right to criticize this show as much as you defending it. Because while I do like the manga and see the amazing quality of the anime, that choice didn't paint this series in a good light due to the implications that I just discussed.
And while I CAN LIVE WITH THIS CHANGE (even though I still think it wasn't made with the best reasons), OTHERS MIGHT NOT
And also man, the author isn't God Ok? We can respect his choices but also acknowledge that he can be just as wrong as us. Just cause he chose the story to go this way doesn't mean the opinions of others saying otherwise is wrong in and of itself. Otherwise there are no such a thing as a "bad movie" because "the director wanted the story to be portrayed this way so any opinion otherwise is wrong"
- continue this thread →
this is my last reply cuz there no point to this anymore.
Ok so you think Rudy is a NOT a pedo even though he does things that objectively are pedo. I dont get you man, even though you said you aren't defending Rudy the stance you took on the issue is that "he wasn't a pedo"?
Saying he's not the pedo is my own opinion(it's the whole argument of judging without taking the circumstances into account which I explained 2 replies ago), it has nothing to do with any of the contexts I provided. I just explained over and over that, I'm explaining about the AUTHOR's choice and defending it, yet you still connect it to defending the act. I just don't know what language should I use!
Its like saying "I am not defending Mr A, he definitely murdered Mrs. B BUT Mr. A is not a murder tho" lol you are literally defending Rudy rn and you cant even see it
You do realize there are different types of "murder" too right? this is where that's whole "Circumstances" thing comes up. the world isn't black and white. people aren't guilty and innocent.
You understand my confusion and the disconnect between what you are saying? You see why I was convinced you were defending Rudy despite what you said of not defending his actions but the author's? If you weren't defending Rudy, just say you think he's objectively a pedo otherwise you just will just contradict yourself. Coz by saying he isn't one, when we as an audience knows that what he did was kinda pedo you literally just defended Rudy and not the author (as what you genuinely thought). Just say "yea I'ts pedo But I respect the author's choice anyway" otherwise you were defeated by your own words.
ah, I'm rubbing my eyes now. this is frustrating cuz I try to make myself as clear as I possibly can to prevent misunderstandings and yet you choose to ignore one part of what I said and draw conclusions from another part. I refer you back to my "lady justice is blind" argument.
having your own understanding and judgment doesn't mean you're defending or attacking an act. I literally said in the first post I was uncomfortable with his action. I repeatedly said to you I'm providing context about why he is the way he is and I'm just trying to respond to the idiots saying "this anime isn't realistic and makes no sense for the characters to behave the way they do"
I don't understand why you're so adamant about me agreeing with your opinion about the MC. no, I don't think he's a pedo, and I won't change my mind about it because I think he's sexually attracted by everything alive. It's pretty messed up and that's why I explained why he's that way. if he was only interested in kids, sure then I'd say it but I don't want to call him something he's just not. he's a sexual deviant. stop twisting my words around and actually listen.The difference is that "Devilman Crybaby" And "Berserk" treats its subjects WITH RESPECT. Casca didn't just slap Griffith and said "kyaa ecchi!" now did she? It was handled very seriously her mind literally broke and we had to go on this surreal journey inside her mind to rescue her and even then that didn't completely fix her, the trauma still remained THAT IS RESPECT
you're missing the point which I already made. those shows are dark, it's their theme. it's supposed to be literally the worst-case scenario and often overly exaggerated (I don't have much fate in humanity cuz I've seen the worst of it but some of the stuff in animes like Crybaby about the nature of humans are just way too exaggerated). that's not paying respect to the subject of "Rape". they're just making it dramatic in order to receive the universally expected response from the audience. that's just playing the scenario the easiest way possible. no one saw that and said "ah that's hot" it was designed to be that way. somehow you confuse that with respecting the subject cuz you think "there's no room for being light with these subjects" and that's where you and I disagree. that's why I love the comedy of Ricky Gervais. he makes jokes about pedophilia and sexual harassment all the time but what he does is actually a little shock to the audience to bring them back to reality it's two approaches with the same intention.
but in MT it was more of a "lol such a funny scene he so pervy to underage girl, get bonked" fan service, which makes sense in the context that no one knows he is actually 30 years old BUT we as an audience know better and that recontextualizes the scene. And because we know that MT isnt that sort of show it just came off in the worst way.
really? did you take that as fan service? cuz that's pretty messed up if you did.
fan service is just there to excite some people. there's no reason behind it, no deeper meaning, just an excuse to show skin. with all the things I explained about "why" you still consider this fan service?
you wanna know why this show actually doesn't have much fan service? (at least for now) because when you see fan service you'll get excited but in this show until now, no a single time it got me excited! none of the things that happened, none of the body scenes, none of the sexual things Rudy or any other character did get me excited they just made me cringe and think about this world and these characters.
I already explained in the first post that this show may look light and fluffy but it's not. that's just how this world looks. because this show is realistic. they don't over-exaggerate things to force a message. cuz guess what, the real world is like that, everything looks good and fine on the surface but if you dig you'll find the dirt and shit. I'll give you some examples;
Do you know about "Peter Norman". pretty much no one knows about him and what he went through for making a gesture about human rights just 50 years ago. you might be surprised.
about the Aboriginal man cooked to death in the back of a police car just 13 years ago?
the stolen generation that still happened up until 1970?
Europe's sex trafficking?
these are the things that society hides from people, unless some people talk about it or you look for it on your own it's pretty hard to know about them. my point is that realistically, the messed up things in the world are hidden mostly because we prefer to live in ignorance. Do you think if someone touches a kid they'll get punished? in most cases, no one will know about it until years and years later.
I already explained to someone else in here about the consequences of such an action. you're upset that he just got "bonked" and didn't get full punishment therefore the scene wasn't intended to be taken seriously? was it played as a funny thing? well, that's the problem with your view of the show. the audience is so used to 2-dimensional anime with completely flat messages and plot and actions and shoving their message in the audience's face that when they see an anime doing it subtly(realistically) they just can't see it and call it "a funny scene" cuz they think if it was serious and had meaning behind it the show would've made a big deal out of it and made everything overly dramatic to make sure the audience gets it! that's the conditioning of all the trash anime that make sure we'll know when to be mad and when to be happy and love and hate which characters! this might shock you but rape and assault and murder don't just happen in dark and messed up conditions. often everything can look fine on the surfues. so even after all these episodes if you still think what they're doing is fan service, then I have to inform you it's not, they're holding a mirror.This show is portraying itself as a character piece about this broken human and his eventual redemption, and the author might have wanted to portray that scene with more nuance with inner monologue of Rudy AND I RESPECT THAT CHOICE as it makes Rudy interesting than some generic isekai protag. BUT if that was what the author wanted the anime didn't capture that tone at all, it just came of as "fan service". Did the author wrote this scene to portray how depraved Rudy was or was it to be fan service? Coz If this was a "fan service" show just so you know I will not bat an eye, I will have zero fucks to give honestly, I would not care
I explained it all before. this scene and other scenes in this show have a completely different feel to them as "fan service" in any other anime. what you're saying is the same as saying Casca's rape scene was fan service just cuz there was nudity! both of these scenes made me incredibly uncomfortable and that's one of the signs that it's not for the audience's pleasure!
I HAVE NO PROBLEM with "lol such a funny scene he so pervy to underage girl, get bonked" in the PROPER CONTEXT. "Chobits" and "How not to summon a demon lord" were NEVER MADE to be taken seriously in this level. Are you telling me "How not to summon a demon lord" is a character study of an awkward man and his struggles to become less awkward? Maybe, maybe BUT that is NOT the point of the show at all is it? And "Chobits" its a robot who honestly gives a shit.
OR are you telling me that MT is on the same level as "Chobits" and "How not to summon a demon lord"?
(never saw "Chobits" just know its some romcom about robots so it might be the best anime ever made and I will never know)>so you're saying an exploitive scene is fine if it's a pointless joke? good to know your real intent.
dude, there are 100s of examples I just gave you a couple of em.
don't twist my words again. no one said these animes are on the same level or on the same genre.And I don't know if you and I are thinking of the same scene in dragonball since I wasn't lucky enough to see the show before Z. But if what you are referring to was the scene where Goku took off Bulma's panties, of course no one would get offended Goku is a REAL child and has NO CONCEPT of sex at all, IT WAS A JOKE to illustrate how pure he is, that he never saw a woman in his life
I'm talking about when Bulma offered to show Goku cooch in exchange for his dragon ball.
this literally applies to you as much as does me. So you just metaphorically punched your self in the face. See I can use your words against you too, think about that next time smart guy. Or are you saying that you made this thread defending the author's choices because you hated the story?
how does what I said works against me, just because you say it doesn't make it so. I gave you a logical conclusion based on your exact words and came to a deduction using your own logic of black and white, while you just said "See I can use your words against you too" LoL
Look I was exposed to the manga version of Rudy so it didn't bother me as much as it could. And really what bothered me is the consent part of the action (WHICH REMEMBER WAS'NT IN THE MANGA and really isn't the only problem) and if it was portrayed that way in the manga, I might not necessarily drop reading but that will always be at the back of my mind, which isn't enjoyable since the goal is immersion.
IF this was ANY OTHER ISEKAI POWER FANTASY SELF INSERT GENERIC PLOT I WOULD NOT CARE IF he diddles some underage girls because I would be bored and who gives a shit there are thousands of those out there
But since this show WANTS US TO TAKE IT SERIOUSLY BECAUSE IT HAS SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE THEN MAYBE, MAYBE I WANT THINGS TO BE HANDLED WITH SOME RESPECT and I am sorry for wanting that much in this show.your double standard is amazing saying you have no problem with child molestation, but then saying you have a problem with this just cuz you want to take this one seriously!
Clearly the theme of sex is very prevalent in this series just like how Rudy saw Roxy fingering herself, Rudy knew enough to respect Roxy and not go hentai protagonist and harass her right? He as a red blooded male acknowledges that it was hot as most of us would but knew enough that he should respect Roxy and not approach her in that moment. It was well handled.
No, most red-blooded men don't get hot from seeing an underage girl touch herself. since you said "as most of us would" then you put yourself in the same group that found that scene "hot", then you got issues bro, don't rope the rest of us in with you and what you felt about that scene. it isn't normal but I still wouldn't call you a pedo!
"as most of us would"
this part of your sentence is making me understand your whole stance here. when I saw the EP6 scene I just felt cringy and uncomfortable therefore I didn't see it as fan service at all instead I dissected it to find the reason for it. but considering what you just said I feel like you felt some level of arousal, so you saw it as fan service and now you're trying to project and making a firm stance against it.
But that scene in the barn is harder to justify does it, I get that Rudy is a perv but maybe just a peak, maybe to cop a feel, but not go all remove her panties because what does that imply about our MC that he would do it if she never woke up? I just wished it was handled better that's all. And if they did go that route maybe have the relationship of Rudy and Eris be significantly tarnished and maybe Rudy has to earn back the trust that was lost BUT NOO it was a "fan service" scene. This is what I meant when I said "it removes the more problematic aspects of the story" its not so much that HE DID IT but what happened afterwards or the immediate consequenses of his actions didn't feel justified
It would imply he'd steal her panties since he has a panty fetish and lost his "SS tier panty artifact" AKA "Roxy's panties", they already established that!
If you actually thought it implies that he's removing them to have sex with her, then my dude, your head is messed up! I didn't even consider he'll do something like that! I can see now why you're so misguided on this thing! get your head out of the gutter man, It was pretty clear he's a panty thief.
Also, I already explained to someone else on this page "Immediate consequences" isn't a thing in the real world. most offenses go unpunished for a long time. Immediate consequences are fantasy. go read my reply to another post cuz I'm not gonna explain again why there were no Immediate consequences to what he did and why that's the right way to write the story.this is my quote: notice how I said that it may be a deal breaker to SOME? And how "are people wrong to feel this way" that coz I was never talking about my self, I was talking about how other's may perceive the show and how absurd it is that people would actually defend Rudy of all people by saying "he gets better as the story goes on" because while that is true that may not be enough to some.
Dude, you can't say you're talking about others when you're talking in their stead this whole time! so what? now you're gonna tell me you don't have a problem with how things happened despite what you were saying this whole time. you actually admitted that you think this wasn't done right. you admitted in this post that you think this very approach wasn't right. so you're questioning the validity of the author's work and choice, you know the very thing I was defending from the beginning(the author's choice).
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there was another person in this page that said:
I personally have a really hard time rooting for a forty-something-year-old MC who gets this weird sexual thrill by removing a nine-year-old child's panties while she's sleeping after he cops a feel. I understand Rudeus as a character and acknowledge how he became the person he is and why he acts the way he does, but that doesn't remove my desire to see him experience Subaru levels of fantastical torture after being forced to witness this depravity lol
and my reply to him was:
At least you admit you get it but you just don't like it. that's more than some others who come up with anything to justify a hate!
my hats off to you sir!I don't have any problem with people not liking it. that's just personal taste and I respect that. but people try to warp logic to justify their dislike, that's why I made this thread.
If you don't like something just say you don't. don't manipulate facts to justify it.What I was defending was that other's have the right to criticize this show as much as you defending it. Because while I do like the manga and see the amazing quality of the anime, that choice didn't paint this series in a good light due to the implications that I just discussed.
no, that's not what you were doing and all of your posts are evident.
you clearly misunderstood some of the action and their intent since you thought he wanted to have sex with her if she didn't wake up as opposed to what he was actually doing which was panty theft.
you're also clearly projecting some stuff considering you admitted you found the Roxy scene "Hot".And while I CAN LIVE WITH THIS CHANGE (even though I still think it wasn't made with the best reasons), OTHERS MIGHT NOT
see, this is the kind of bullshit I can't overlook, just cuz your pervy mind went and saw this whole thing as fan service and now you're trying to make sure you won't get blamed for getting hot from those scenes you going hard against it.
you can't make a whole argument this LONG and then say "yes I'm fine with it, I'm just talking about how others feel" come on man get real!And also man, the author isn't God Ok? We can respect his choices but also acknowledge that he can be just as wrong as us. Just cause he chose the story to go this way doesn't mean the opinions of others saying otherwise is wrong in and of itself. Otherwise there are no such a thing as a "bad movie" because "the director wanted the story to be portrayed this way so any opinion otherwise is wrong"
the opinions of others are wrong cuz they're not presenting solid logic and argument and yet calling the Author's choice "bad" or "wrong". they're calling the Author's choice wrong just because of how they feel, and frankly, feelings aren't something a debate should be based upon.
you can only say something is wrong if you can prove it! I personally don't like the Star Wars movies(any of them) that's just how I feel about them there's no logic behind what I feel. I'm also not trying to convince anyone why these movies are bad cuz that's just based on how I feel about them and if I said my opinion I know I'm wrong.
It's like the idiots who said the "Joker" movie is bad. their only reason for the problems they found with it was based on how they felt about it while the movie itself was near perfect on almost any aspect! just cuz they felt like that doesn't make it true.I admit no one in a long time frustrated me more than you. I feel like I'm arguing with a teenager. This is my last response to you. I said everything I needed to say and I won't be repeating my self anymore.
