The worst episode of this season in my opinion. Ochaco's power up was cool and all, but the sh*t she was speaking made my ear bleed and by brain shut down.
Wtf is "You killed a lot of people, but your smile is cute?" Ochaco is as crazy as Toga?? I was about to barf hearing ochaco.
Last episode was soo good, that's how u r supposed to express emotions and feelings, but this? ew bruh.
I didn't get why Toga wasn't able to copy her team members but was able to copy the heroes.
Anyways, what do u guys think about this episode?
didn't really hate it that much toga might be the most unique character i have seen in long time. her situation is interesting having her biology work against her making her what she is and having her in a situation that she can't be understood by others unlike psychos who do what they do because of their own choice and wanting to feel superior to others, but in her case the closest thing i can think of and i can't believe i am saying this is you know when sometimes you masturbate and it feels good and when you are done you feel like you just did the most disgusting thing ever well that is your mind making you feel good biology you know so toga she just feels the good part and can never stop due to her quirk so it was never her choice to be that way which makes her case really interesting and unique and honestly the people around her made it worse now that i think about it so having ochaco try to reach out to her didn't feel like it came out of nowhere or a bad thing to me at least.
leave off for what, a movie to end it all? if they do an extra long episode or a movie they could probably fit what's left i suppose. Movie might be the most "monitization" move. if they do they better put it out in the USA at the same time / after a short japanese exclusive.
another season doesn't feel right, unless they are going to make more content than the manga. which is possible.
guess we find out in the next few days. if it's a normal episode, hell anything short of 90 minutes minimum, and we are getting another thing and left with a cliffhanger.
I am still doubtful that we get a movie, Horikoshi is not a fan of movies which adapt the source material of the manga (he prefers original stories like we got so far). I think with what the manga has left it should be enough for at least 12/13 episodes, with some extra material probably to expand on the epilogue. Wouldn't mind that at all. A movie however has too little runtime, you can't cover +30 chapters within 90 minutes appropriately.
The next episode will kick off my favorite portion of the manga, I am extremely excited. For anime-onlies I will warn though, there is a very good chance that this season will end on a nasty cliffhanger. I'm still slightly coping that the final episode might be longer than 24 min but we'll have to see.
To be completely honest I think it's insane of them to break off the season in the middle of the final battle. With all of this buildup and interweaving plotpoints, the momentum it's been carrying, I feel like a 6-12 month pause in the middle of it is just going to crumble it all away and ruin this pacing that they've been building for the past ~20 episodes.
I feel like they should've taken a longer break before this season to extend it, so they could just wrap the entire final battle in one season. Taking a break mid-final battle just feels wrong. Though I'm speaking from an anime-only perspective, so maybe there is a good place to end the season on that wouldn't ruin the pacing and would make for a good break point and I just don't know about it.
Though I'm speaking from an anime-only perspective, so maybe there is a good place to end the season on that wouldn't ruin the pacing and would make for a good break point and I just don't know about it.
As a manga reader, I also think there isn't a good place to end. There is a semi-good place but it would require adapting 7 chapters next episode so I'm coping the final ep will be longer than 24 min lol
I didn't get why Toga wasn't able to copy her team members but was able to copy the heroes.
Also for the OP of this thread, Toga simply copied their physical appearance, she can do that with the league too. She simply struggles to use their QUIRK because her villain mentality makes it difficult for her to maintain her pure love which is the condition to use other's quirks.
i really liked this episode. it feels like a lot of the villains' in this show just needed a hug and someone to say "im sorry that happened to you".
i think toga is like, the first time a villain was actually relatable. cause a lot of times they are like "wow, this guy has a good point, but we have to make him murder people".
A couple of people said this was the best episode of s7 so far, and i agree. The sad backstory didn't work for Shigaraki, but it worked for Toga. She did nothing wrong.
She did nothing wrong.
Alright let's not be delusional, she still killed innocent people. She's a sympathetic character, but that's not exclusive from her being a murderer.
Ok, i was a little off about her murders, but her childhood was a series of small escalating tragedies. All of which were her good intentions just being perceived as evil acts.
Well not only that, after she ran away she killed multiple people even before joining the league. I suppose memory is fuzzy because it was more mentioned in early seasons but she killed a good amount of people. Just like how Dabi is also a serial murderer case burning people to death in his free time
i kind of think it did work for shigaraki, not as well as toga, but i do feel like he has a really good reason to be mad. and the fact that all for one (or one for all, i get them mixed up...) just took advantage of him. i do think it would be cooler if shigaraki was like "your a bitch, and im going to kill all for one and one for all."
While I liked the episode, I definitely agree the ending dialogue was weird and cringe.
It's funny how many of the villain's origins basically come down to "parents bad".
FRR!! "I like sucking blood, hehe?? But my parents won't let me, i am so innocent! My parents are monsters!"
They could have been supportive if she had to have that blood get her some they just went to conclusions that she killed the bird and her friend when she didn’t to a child if you accuse them of wrongdoing and you keep doing it it will fuck them up as it did, the dialogue was cringe but it makes perfect sense why toga became what she is
Yeah, I agree. What she was doing obviously wasn't right, but instead of understanding that it was part of her quirk, they treated her like a monster, making her become one, against her own will.
She doesn't crave "hurting people", she is drawn towards people's blood due to her quirk, if she gets to it in another way, then she will do that.
Jesus Christ! I just lost some brain cells reading this thread especially the dumbasses complaining about dialogue. No wonder these discussion threads are dead here.
Regardless of whatever Toga went through, having Ocacho talk about "I need to talk about romance with you and love and boys <33" while the world is about to end because of Toga is absolutely jarring.
I think the dynamic would work if Ocacho and Toga were childhood friends or something, but considering Toga is a murderous villain ("misunderstood" or not), and Ochaco is a hero trying to save the world, it feels so forced to try to have her care so deeply about Toga's feelings. "Sure you stabbed me in the stomach and the fate of the world is on the line but before I die...let's talk love <33"
it feels so forced to try to have her care so deeply about Toga's feelings
That's quite literally the whole message of the story. There's no real dichotomy between good and evil or hero and villain; "heroes" can be as bad as villains and "villains" are victims of circumstances most of the time. If you're a true hero, you need to act with empathy for everyone in any circumstances, not just defeat the villains. Much of Deku's character centers around this idea of restorative justice. It's not a surprise that Ochaco also embodies it given how she developed throughout the story (especially during her speech raising awareness and empathy for heroes like Deku).
Let me preface this by saying I didn't expect this to be long (oops lolol)
I completely agree with you - that is the message that the story is trying to tell.
We have heroes like endeavor and hawks who were acting "villainous", and as we learn about some villains, we see that they weren't always that way.
I think that's great messaging. However, when we look at the bigger picture, that messaging falls flat. Shigaraki has done irreparable damage to the world - killing America's #1 hero, collapsing Japan's entire society, and being the worldwide symbol of fear and panic - an ultra-terrorist whose only goal is destruction.
Then we have Toga, with no concrete motivation of her own, follows Shigaraki and unconditionally helps him destroy hero society, her actions have nearly killed class 1A many many times, and her current actions contributed significantly more death and destruction in the war.
That is the big picture. These are our playing cards, so when you have a battle against the FATE of the world, AND have the MC and female lead tell those terrorists that they want to "save" them, it feels like a huge misjudgment of priorities. Correct me if I'm wrong but, Ochacho/Deku didn't even know Toga/Shigaraki's full story - based on their interactions alone, it doesn't make sense why they're so insistent on "saving" them
The messaging is more nuanced than that. While they feel empathy for them and want to "save" them, they know it's impossible and they can only do so much. It's sort of a dilemma. However, they're taking a small step in the right direction as true heroes. Their main priority still remains stopping the villains. It's not one or the other.
You don't need to know someone's backstory to feel empathy for them as basic humans. Deku and Ochaco know that villains aren't born villains. That's exactly why Ochaco was insistent on understanding Toga's character in the story (and in the episode).
i think many people in this thread are forgetting these girls are like 15 only lmao. im not a big fan of how things went either but the hate is crazy. tbh in mha, i've always liked the villains more than the side hero cast. my top 5 fav is like deku, shiga, dabi, twice and all might. HM are Endeavour and Hawks. anybody else in the show is kinda meh - they're cool but never developed much.
Something everyone also forgets is that it's been only 9 months roughly, from the first season. Like... not even a year. Class 1-A is still class 1-A.
And yes I agree, everyone has a nice character design, even random nurses at the hospital, but everyone except a couple of characters, is flat like a cutting board.
The last two seasons were a pile of hot garbage, this one especially so.
But I disagree with you, this episode wasn't THAT bad, in my opinion.
Obviously, Ochako can't go to her saying "bitch, you are crazy WTF". She's trying to reason with her and she's worried about her as a person, she's asking herself "Why did this girl had to resort to such actions?".
Everything else is as awful as ever in this season: plot holes, plot armor, sensical holes, and logical holes everywhere. The only thing pushing the plot forward is an insane level of "trust me bro" events and some pretty good animations.
The replies here are so funny LMAO all Hero discussion is so terrible. I knew this episode was going to be one of the ones I liked less, but this reaction seems to completely miss the entire point of both characters.
One of the key themes in the show is the importance of good mentorship. All villains (except AFO who's basically a walking allegory) start as blank slates who change based on their environment. The show highlights why their environment is bad in very simple ways. Toga's case is yet another simple one; her parent's clear negligence and prejudice against her mutation lead her to being a murderer. It's clear that Toga did not WANT to kill people, but her quirk forced her to outlet after basically being molded into normalcy.
The story tells us that she had no incidents between killing the bird and killing her classmate, which means that she could have easily sustained off of either donated human blood or animal blood. It's a classic Vampire in society route from any supernatural anime I could pick out of a hat. That means the creation of a murderer falls on the failure of hero society's quirk counseling and prejudice against people with strange afflictions.
Ochako pieced about half of this together, and blamed the quirk counseling instead of Toga. Toga could have been a normal high schooler if she received any proper care from those in charge of her. Being sympathetic towards Toga makes sense because she was basically forced into being labeled a criminal, and she still needed blood to survive after escaping. Her options are turning herself in for a crime her quirk forced her to commit, or escaping and giving in to her quirk.
Dabi, on the other hand, chose to be a murderer. Even if Endeavor was a terrible parent, hero, and an abuser, Dabi had no reason to kill innocent people other than his own ideal. Not being sympathetic towards Dabi also makes sense. His parents can obviously blame themselves, but they still understand that Dabi's choices were his own decisions.
Ochako's line is saying that despite killing people she's still just a regular human like the rest of them. She hasn't changed from being Toga Himeko; the theme of her not choosing a villain name. The point of that character is that she wanted to live as Toga Himeko, quirk and all, and not the girl her parents wanted her to be. It's also probably why she quickly befriended Mag. Saying that she can still be "cute" instead of calling her a "fugly psychopath murderer" is the best way to pacify her, as well as a good showing of how Ochako is looking past Toga to see the root of the problem. It does not make Ochako crazy.
Anyway, I pray that the CGI next episode is good. That's really all I want.
I get what they wanted out of Toga's arc. She was put a step behind at the start with a quirk that just pushes someone down a less than good route. But while the episode tried to frame it one way...the general path taken with her wasn't wrong. The therapist had the delicacy of a sledgehammer but Toga did need therapy. You can't actually let Toga unleash her desires on society. She did need to be reigned in and that would make life tough on her. The majority can live easier within the ruleset of society and she'd have to struggle with it. Her parents did suck to the degree that they weren't remotely patient enough. She had a bad quirk. Sorry to say...but they had a kid that would require a lot of patience and guidance.
That doesn't excuse her actions. It adds context to them, but she still needed to be stopped. Which is why putting it the hands of Ochaco who basically got locked into the one-track topic of "let's talk romance" was worrisome. Thankfully it kind of worked out. But honestly not knocking Toga out as soon as possible was a dangerous choice. I appreciate that Ochaco felt bad about not hearing her out the last time. It wasn't great, but at least it was fun enough seeing her quirk stretch to absurd limits. Wasn't as good a fight as her tournament 1v1 against Bakugo though. That was awesome. This was...eh.
Honestly I just don't care all that much about Toga. And Ochaco got less interesting the more obsessed she got with her. But that fight (Ochaco just tanking hits repeatedly) is over and the story can move along.
Everything about their dialogue aside, I thought the whole sad man's parade was super weak. The goal of it was accomplished, she completely overwhelmed the heroes but there were no consequences it did nothing. She said she wanted to kill them but like, do it then so many were totally covered by your clones. When all the clones got lifted in the air they ended up just disappearing 30 seconds later anyway cause the blood ran out. And she said when she transforms her blood becomes the same as the person she transformed into. Why not get more blood that way? I don't think its a nitpick when these seem like very glaring issues
A lot of ppl seem to complain about them talking about romance/boys/being cute in the middle of a big fight so Im gna respond to the "it doesn't make sense!!" comments.
I do find the impact is lessened bc of how fragmented and sparse their interactions(and Uraraka's introspection) has been building up to this ep, AND it isn't given quite the same level of visual spectacle action-wise, but I don't find their conversation topic to be jarring at all, it makes perfect sense given everything we know abt toga. These things are THE driving force behind toga as a person and a villain.
Uraraka is the one that gets through to Toga BECAUSE she finally realized she couldn't think the way these replies do. To toga these topics hold way more weight than middle school gossip at a sleepover; they are feelings that embody everything society finds wrong about her.
They're "talking love" because Toga's actions stem from a lack of reciprocation or acceptance(which led to one-sided and harmful displays of her affection, and it's why her change of heart is concluded with learning to offer HER blood in return). It's why deku's attempt to rationalize a solution for her earlier in the show failed.
Uraraka doesn't try to overlook anything(such as dabi trying to help erase her painful past) or fit toga into a box (like deku or the adults around her did).
Toga is a murderer and a criminal through and through, uraraka knows that. But she also (now) knows it's NOT because toga is psychotic, or a monster, or born evil. There's a more fundamental flaw with society and these little arcs between todoroki, shoji+koda, uraraka, etc are showing that they're 'true heroes' because they genuinely care how villains got there, including basic longings such as familial acceptance or falling in love. Because they recognize that they could've walked a similar path of resentment had they not found their own moments of acceptance & faith in human nature. That's like a main theme of the show, if not THE main theme.
All the main villains in the league showcase various cases of rejection and ostracization and tbh I was pleasantly surprised at how Toga and the idea of non/normative "love" was handled alongside Dabi and the others.