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← darkroomHappy Frieren Friday everyone! Bit of a nerve wrecking episode today.
It's absolutely ridiculous how much they showed off with that fight in the beginning! And Ferns fight as well. I still can't believe it.
That whole episode was just peak Frieren and why I loved S1 so much.
Everbody went all out. This episode was insane and definitely one of the best so far. God, Methode is so bad. She is allowed to pet me all day, mainly because I am scared of her now.
So satisfying.
100/10.
[Spoilers] Frieren: Beyond Journey’s End Season 2 - Episode 8 Discussion
That whole episode was just peak Frieren and why I loved S1 so much.
Everbody went all out. This episode was insane and definitely one of the best so far. God, Methode is so bad. She is allowed to pet me all day, mainly because I am scared of her now.
So satisfying.
100/10.
Happy Frieren Friday everyone!
We get a sleepy Frieren this episode! And we even get to see her sleeping on top of Fern while Methode checks in on them lol
Anyway, yeah a really amazing action-packed episode. Animation and action were really stunning here and made the fights that much more incredible and amazing! And I still like how this arc wraps up!
And I like seeing Genau basically having his little arc come to a close here, and I like that the anime changed things and made it so that Genau wanted Methode to heal Stark first! And that flashback between Genau and his partners was also a really great moment!
And yes we get to see Methode fawning over Fern and Frieren again lol. I do still find it very cute that Frieren declines Methode's offer to join their party cause she wants to leave the priest slot open for Sein! And I do love that Stark points out that Sein would absolutely love Methode lmao
The anime also added that burial scene with the Chivalric Order of Norm, and I think that's a very nice addition!
Holy shit what an incredible episode. Kouki Fujimoto is just unreal. After delivering a full solo key-animated sequence in Jujutsu Kaisen, he aslo directs and storyboards this episode as well as also doing key animation, second key animation, and even doing some in-betweening himself. The sheer range of work we have gotten from him in a single season is honestly insane. Episodes like this are a reminder of how much of anime’s magic sometimes comes down to ridiculously talented people pouring everything they have into a few minutes of animation. Absolutely unbelievable work. I bow down to the GOAT.
The music complementing the fights just made it so much more peak.
Although I was hoping Fern and Methode would show off a bit more, it was still an amazing and satisfying fight to watch.
Music was SO GOOD
Evan Call supremacy
Methode bro I kneel, fuck frieren for not getting her at the end lmao. Crazy good episode expected from the staff list
Methode is extra beautiful in this episode as well 10/10
Is the fight over? I haven't watch since episode 7 because I don't want to wait a whole week to see the fight actually done.
Yes...
Yes and it's peak
Yes and it's peak
Yes and it's peak
Yes and it's peak
Amazing looking episode but I'm afraid the story is just as messed up as any other episode in season 2. Here in this arc the primary conflict should be about Genau's experience of his "good guy" partner dying from protecting a child, and also letting Revolte escape, indirectly causing the village massacre incident. What is the moral lesson Genau should learn from this experience? What does the story tell us in the end?
git gud nub
It doesn't say whether the partner should save the kid, or should not save the kid, the real problem is he shouldn't have died, that's the problem, and it's a skill issue. You see if you're as tough as Genau then you won't have a moral dilemma, you can save the kid, kill the demon, and also save Stark, and also still survive, that's what real heroes do, sacrifices are for weaklings.
Secondly, what was Frieren's purpose in all of this? Why did she agree to such a bad matchup where Stark almost dies but her team is so strong that she can just AFK and let Fern noscope demolish the demons? She knows about Revolte does she not? Doesn't she care about whether Stark will make it?
I don't think the arc needed a clear answer and objectively speaking what other options are there than getting good?
The world in Frieren is brutal and Genau's experience shows that and how it affects him as a person. I think the whole point was to show this and how his worldview conflicts with his actions. In the end whether you save the kid or not isn't important, no choice is wrong. You can't judge his partner for wanting to save a child and Genau knows it. It's just a personal philosophy at this point. If you can accept letting people die for the greater good than do that but if it's at the cost of hating yourself, is it really worth it? I think that's the real question to this and i think it did pretty well.
The partner saved one kid, died, indirectly killed a whole bunch of other people probably including kids.
Genau saved one fake kid, killed 2 demons, saved Stark, and also comes out alive to kill more demons.What does that tell you? You think it tells us nothing? Story progressions are always intentional so everything always tells us something, only a very bad story will argue things happen randomly for no reason.
Think about an alternative version of this fight. What if Genau sees the kid but doesn’t save her, Stark falls for the trick and gets injured, but Genau takes the opportunity to kill or decisively injure Revolte, then he saves Stark. In this way we have the same event play out but Genau actually learns from his experience and as a result of that, makes it possible to both kill the demon and save the kid (if the kid was real).
As of right now, whether you like it or not, the story clearly suggests there is no moral dilemma because you just need more plot armor to solve the problem. And solving a moral problem with plot armor is bad writing.
The issue is that Frieren as a story doesn't aim to propose you any moral dilemmas nor asks you to judge which moral standpoint of which character it shows you is the "truest" as every single one is true and valid. It only proposes you to take out a lesson from each individual character experience as each person tackles the same situation differently and each character's life and background is a lesson of life that you are supposed to take with you further on.
Saying this is bad writing is fundamentally false because it is based on wrong assumptions. Your misunderstanding of the story and its premis doesn't mean the story is badly written, it just means you apply wrong tools to try and analyse the story. Your comparison of outcomes of Genau's and his partner's situations is basically showing that you are applying the wrong thinking to the story of Frieren, because story of Frieren doesn't care about outcomes, it only cares about the journey and that is the entire premis of this story and this world. Trying to compare outcomes is at odds with what this entire story is actually about.
Furthermore, this arc was indeed about Genau, but it was also about humanity. It was about how humans think they are one thing, but their actions say another thing entirely. It is about how a person may think they're not kind, not sacrificing, not caring, but ultimately their actions show who they truly are no matter how much they deny them to everyone around (like Genau). And that is a powerful and realistic message about humans and humanity, not only Genau. In this there is also ironicaly a similarity between demons and humans. Both can use speech to deceive in order to do something else, they can do it to deceive others, but humans can also deceive themselves with words. Their actions however never lie, they will always reflect who they truly are as humans, and the same is true for demons.
ah, the "I didn't fail, I never tried to succeed" argument.
I never compared outcomes, in my simple revision we get the exact same outcome, everyone lives, they beat the demons, but the moral lesson is different. And if you're trying to say there is no moral lesson, things just randomly happen and that's it, you're not suppose to get anything out of it, fine. It's just what's exactly what bad stories do.
Yea the fact that Genau says he's dark but actually he saves the kid, is slightly interesting. But that's only like, mid tier story telling, you get that from garbage isekai all the time. I was just expecting more from supposedly one of the greatest anime of all time.
- continue this thread →
Don't take me wrong, I'm not trying to chastise you for your experience as it is ok if you don't like the story.
I'm disagreeing in purely academical capacity with the points you have made. Forgive me for a long reply. I have tendency to write essays.ah, the "I didn't fail, I never tried to succeed" argument.
I have no idea what "argument" you think I'm making, but I'm a writer and I did study media and each and every story can't be really analysed with the same tools nor with the same assumptions, especially if it doesn't follow the typical formula. And Frieren is an atypical story (for a shounen) that follows its own rules.
To better illustrate it: You wouldn't judge a penguin for its inability to fly despite it being a bird, because we all understand that there are many types of birds and some of them simply don't fly, but are not "worse" for it. Same is true for stories and how they do storytelling. There is not a "one glove fits all" kind of rule.
And if you're trying to say there is no moral lesson, things just randomly happen and that's it, you're not suppose to get anything out of it, fine. It's just what's exactly what bad stories do.
What I'm trying to say is that the story doesn't provide a dilemma, but provides moral standpoints of various people to give you - the viewer - the diverse understanding of human condition from multiple perspectives and walks of life. It doesn't ask you to judge or choose. It just shows you how varied the human (and non-human in case of other non-demon races) experience is. If you don't like the story, that's fine, but insisting it is "bad" or "badly written", because it doesn't adhere to your preconceived notions of "how the story should be / go" means you are not ready to do literary analysis of media and judge if it is "badly written" or not. (Because such statement is not personal opinion, it is made to bring attention to an objective fact such as "quality of writing", but you are not making an objective statement when it is based on wrong arguments, you are stating your subjective view instead while saying it as if it was a fact).
But that's only like, mid tier story telling, you get that from garbage isekai all the time.
That is exactly the mindset I was pointing out to you - that you seem focused on goals and look at the anime as if it was storytelling olympics, comparing them based on "which is better" rather than "what it says and how". When you say you expected more from "the greatest anime of all time" it also shows this type of mindset, that you think Frieren should be outpacing other stories in how it does storytelling, that it "has to be peak, it must somehow "defeat" other stories, fulfill your expectations in a way that twarts other stories you saw so far, be better in every way shape or form than the other stories you consumed to "earn" the title of "the greatest anime" and that is simply not a mindset suitable to even interact with a story such as Frieren because it isn't made for people who expect all of that from it - it is a story for completely different type of audience and that's fine, it doesn't mean it is bad if it doesn't adhere to those expectations.
I was just expecting more from supposedly one of the greatest anime of all time.
Furthermore it's fine if the story doesn't fit your expectations. However, it is seen by many as "the greatest" not because it somehow twarts other stories or does something better than other stories, but exactly because it doesn't follow the expectations. It is episodic, it has incredible attention to details. It focuses on the stuff other shounens tend to skip over quickly, and makes them into the focus. It is basically a fantasy slice of life with some action and conflict on the side. If I were to describe the storytelling Frieren does I'd say "it documents, it observes, it makes you think about things that seem insignificant and helps you see how important they are". Frieren is observing humanity and learning how to cherish her bonds with them and we - the audience - observe her doing exactly that, while being taught lessons about life. At the same time, Frieren like any story, has its flaws and can be criticised for them, but how it tells a story is not one of them.
The problem is moreso that your bar for "good storytelling" is a moral or solution from Genau's example story. Do X or Y.
Instead, it's a bunch of different outlooks that are less black and white than doing a "good thing" or a "bad thing", and a lot of hypocritical, emotion driven, split second decisions that people actually experience. By that, it actually is good storytelling. It doesn't need to tell you an answer, it needs to show you the character's lived experience whether it's contradictory or not. Genau exploring both sides of his morality and attempting to do the "right thing" is what ultimately let them draw with the demon.
They also DO give you the alternate version of the fight. Originally, Genau left the demon to his partner (who could kill it), and went to go exterminate the other demons for efficiency. He came back unscathed, while his partner died. In this version Stark stayed behind when he didn't have to, and Stark's selflessness toward Genau let them win in the end, which was then paid in kind when Genau saved him. It's not plot armor, there's a difference of an entire character. Still, it doesn't actually answer the question of who was "right". Genau isn't wrong to save more potential lives by killing more demons, nor is his partner wrong to save the child. Stark isn't wrong to stay behind to help Genau, Genau isn't wrong to save the child or Stark. It's not trying to teach you anything, it's trying to show characters doing their best to make tough choices in these situations.
I kind of agree with you. Not only the writing is mid at best but the execution (the manga too probably) has been extremely cliche IMO. Like how they focus the mouth and then they smile, how they talk mid-fight for 5 seconds while the remaining guy waits for them to finish talking so they continue the fight, , the arrogance of the demons and how overpowered they are portrayed to make their defeat more surprising, how fern didn't directly hit the final demon, instead it aimed at just in front of her while she (demon) was approaching methode, seemingly so that the demon lives a little longer in fear and we get a more dramatic and entertaining fight, etc. And all these examples are from this episode only. Crazy how downgraded this season is. At least that's how I feel it.
##Epic episode! Definitely the best so far this season. I will leave my favorite animation sequence below. <img width='' src='https://files.catbox.moe/a08djz.jpg'> <span class='markdown_spoiler'><span> (It may take a few seconds, this can be buggy. Use the real links if needed to watch on another tab.) <video muted loop autoplay controls><source src='https://files.catbox.moe/oos5hy.mp4' type='video/webm'>Your browser does not support the video tag.</video> https://files.catbox.moe/oos5hy.mp4 What's weird about the animation in this episode, which most probably didn't notice, is that, the first half and second half, handle the animation and direction quite differently, in the first half, in comparacion with the second half, consistency and details are not a main concern, smears/movement-trails are big and overused, sound effects are louder, and the soundtrack choice (or the lack of one even) is worse. Had they not switched their approach for the second half of the episode, I don't think it would have had the same impact. </span></span>
I wholeheartedly agree. That fight scene was just really smooth, from direction to flow. Like a nicely planned out dance.
There's no video, just audio lol.
There's a video, but the webM function is buggy, worse if you use Firefox, or a Firefox-based browser.
The video surprisingly works pretty fine for me on Firefox xD
This episode was really full of fan service. The fights are quite well thought out. Stark throwing his weapon and then parkouring up to the top and then being cought by Genau and collecting his axe was really nice.
Methode is quite cold. She didn't even see her opponent as a threat. Meanwhile Fern struggled a bit in the fog. Fern seems to be more used for covert and sniping operations.
Kouki Fujimoto wasn't satisfied with delivering a solo KA episode in Jujutsu Kaisen, so this week he decided to show off his mastery of storyboarding and directing in Frieren.
It's already one of the best episodes of the year, and also a clear win of the "Man of the Season" award, which Kouki certainly deserved.
Oh, my, GOD. This episode is fucking perfect.
Everybody got their cool moments and more this week!
Except Frieren herself who was just nodding approvingly from the sidelines lol
Stark's ready for the Olympics
PANIC!
This week's lineup is the clearest argument yet for what an AniP with real industry ties can do for an adaptation. Frieren anime is what it is in large part because of Yuuichirou Fukushi's unmatched connections and network.
Generational episode. Literally.
It's too early to say, but this will get brought up alongside Gurren Lagann's classic episode #15 for years - the all-star episode people still point to as proof of what a stacked production can become.Still think there is not enough Methode in this collage..............
She's awesome. Hot. Cool. Just everything.
Honehone cut.
The camera work and impressive SB here is beyond words. Genuinely insane.
Fukushi was also the AniP on OPM s1, that's why it was so good.
Us Frieren fans have the blessing of having more than one season with this man.
PLEASE LET FRIEREN STAY AT MADHOUSE, WE NEED THIS MAN'S BIG BULGING ADDRESS BOOK TILL THE END!Yeah, he mostly works on the big hitters at Madhouse and regularly on Natusme Shingo's (who's also a regular director at the studio) projects like OPM, Boogiepop, ACCA13, Sonny Boy, and his upcoming movie too.
PLEASE LET FRIEREN STAY AT MADHOUSE,
I agree, a studio change should never be an option, like ever.
Two words. Holy mackerel...
I'm sad that the little demon girl died so quickly. I've really been hoping for there to be eventually a demon that tries to gain humanity, and her curiosity about humans made her a good candidate too... sigh
Yeah but that wouldn't happen. Not only she wouldn't want to become a human whatsoever but even if she wanted to she wouldn't be able to. It's like you trying to get rid of your emotions: fear, love, grief, anger, etc. It's just our nature and demons have their own too.
Gotta say, some of the sequences after the intro were extremely rough with the unpolished CGI environments. Which is very odd because the rest of the episode was fantastic animation wise. That said I don't feel like this episode will be that memorable outside of that aspect.
Felt like it was more of an effort in animation at the cost of storytelling for me.
WE ATE GOOD THIS WEEK
Man, the healing magic in this world is really good.
That was insane man. The animated background, the effects, the fights choreography, the character animation, everything was top level and beyond. As an animated backgrounds enjoyer, I ate a fucking SSS-tier meal here.
Methode had great moments in her fight too, someone's clearly a fan on the team
This episode gave EVERYTHING. It did NOT hold back on ANYTHING.
This is not even absolute, this is just the definition of CINEMA. The epitome of what PEAK can be.
This episode is up there with episodes 9-10 of season one and the upcoming climax of season three.As a manga reader and someone who's got Frieren as my favourite anime and manga, I cannot express how glad I am to be able to witness such a great adaptation.
Even if I get hit by a truck, I'll refuse the isekai, I have to stay alive in this world long enough to watch and rewatch this show until it's done.
